Hello fellow bourbonites, and welcome to the Bells of Bourbon, the podcast. My name is Jack, and I'm the Bluegrass Bourbon Guy. If this is your first time listening, this podcast series will focus on the women in the bourbon industry, and have the same format as my other podcast. I want you to feel like you're sitting in the living room with us, sipping on a bourbon, and listening to the conversation. So come on in, find a comfy chair, and have a pour. Today the living room has moved to the Green River Distillery in Owensboro, Kentucky. And I'm honored to be joined today by Karen Wells, who is the national brand ambassador for Green River Distillery. Karen, thanks for allowing me to interview you today and welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. So listen, what is a national brand ambassador? Yeah, that's a great question. Big title there, isn't it? Uh, you know, my job is falls under the marketing realm. And basically what I do is I go out and I talk about Green River. So I support our salespeople out in the market. Uh, I talk to People, enthusiasts, podcasts, uh, anything that, um, anything that involves just talking about the history of our brand. Absolutely. So I saw recently with the Bourbon, uh, Bourbon Women Organization at the symposium, you did a glass, or a grain to glass symposium, did you? I did. I did a grain to glass class, uh, basically a Bourbon 101, and um, then we also had an excursion that we did, uh, with everybody too. So it kind of took Owensboro, brought Owensboro to Louisville for everybody. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. So where are you? Originally, originally, I was born in Western New York. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm a long way from home. Born there. I always say that if you think I'm funny, I get it because I was born in the same hospital as Lucille Ball. Oh, wow. In Jamestown, New York. So that is yeah, but I moved there when I was a young child. So how'd you get to Kentucky? Um, well, my in laws live here. I when I left New York I moved to Florida and I spent the majority of my life down in Florida. When I retired I moved to Kentucky. I wanted my four seasons back and And landed in Owensboro. Oh, that's awesome. Owensboro was a great city. Actually, my daughter was born here. Yeah. Yeah. I love it It's a big little city. So, so how and why Bourbon? How and why bourbon? Yeah, um, you know, when you, when you live in Kentucky, it's just a natural, uh, a natural draw. You know, I drank, I say I enjoyed bourbon my whole life or whiskey, um, but when you're here and, and I became involved with the Owensboro Bourbon Society, um, it's just a natural draw and, and I really enjoyed it a lot, learning about it. Yeah, so, so tell me about the progress, you know, how did you get into actually doing what you're doing now? Now your, your steps that you got up to, to this point. Yeah. So I really blame everything on my now 83 year old aunt. Yeah. And she's listening. It's all, it's all your fault. So, um, she wanted to go to the bourbon meetings and once I moved back, she's like, Oh, good. Now that you're here, you can go with me. Uh, so I started going to the bourbon society meetings at the Miller house. Um, our, our group kind of outgrew that. And then, uh, and then we migrated over to the. And, um, one night I was, uh, sitting at a table with a group of people that worked at the distillery and we were drinking rye whiskey straight out of the barrel. It was very good. Uh, and I casually mentioned that, uh, if they needed more tour guides that I was retired. And, uh, about a month later they called and they said, now listen, were you serious or were you drunk? And I said, maybe a little both, but either way I was serious and that's how I got my foot in the door. That's cool. So what kind of training did you have to go, you know, to being from a tour guide up to being the National Brand Ambassador? Yeah, well, you know, I started as a part time tour guide and that just kind of rolled into being full time, which I really had no intentions of working full time again, but I was having so much fun and I was learning and meeting So many wonderful people and uh, so that, that kind of, you know, was my gateway into everything. Um, then it got to the point that if our, uh, if our head distiller or our master distiller wasn't available to give a tour, uh, then they would ask me to do it. And to me that was a huge honor because you're, you're, you're putting me up there or you think that I can do as good a job as they can. Uh, and so, um, so once we got ready to release Green River, uh, they asked me if I wanted to be the national brand ambassador. And I said, well, you know, what do I, what do I have to do? What does that mean? It's a, it's a great title. What do I have to do? And they said, well, you're, you know, you'll have to talk to people. I enjoy doing that. They said, you know, you'll drink and, and, uh, you'll have to travel. And I said, and, and you're going to pay me to do all these things. And they said, yeah. And I said, okay, sign me up. A little bit more involved than that, but you know, for the, you know, that's, that's the rough edges of it. Oh, that's, that's awesome. That's awesome. So what are kind of some of the challenges that you have, you have experienced, uh, in getting to where you are today? Yeah, um, you know, great question. I think part of it is that there's so much information, so much, uh, history involved with Bourbon, and you really need to study it, and you, and you need to learn it, and, um, And just trying to keep up with all of it and keep it all in the right order You know, my biggest goal is I want to encourage people to To enjoy their journey with bourbon no matter where they are in it Um, but also to have an appreciation, you know You don't have to like the spirit itself if you can appreciate the history and and then what we give back to the communities As as a whole so I think the challenge is is is um, you know Is always keeping it fresh and, and, and keeping it pertinent and knowing your audience to be able to communicate those things. Yeah, that's, absolutely. Um, what, what do you, when you, when you get your source, what are your sources of information? I know you, you're, you're master distillers and things like that, but I mean, just, you know, where, where do you, do you read, do you study, do you, you know? Yeah, yeah, all of that. I, I enjoy reading books. I enjoy just talking to people and I, you know, everybody always asks what the industry is like and it's very friendly, you know, and even if we work for different brands, we're still really friendly. So there's, there's times when we're in, in big group settings, bourbon women's symposium or whiskey festivals or whatever, and we still talk shop and we, you know, we ask each other questions. That's just the nature of the beast. You want to, um, You want everybody to enjoy the spirit and to share the love. There's, there's plenty of bourbon to go around. Absolutely. No, I think that's one thing I really enjoyed since, you know, and venturing into the industry is the fact that everybody is family. I mean, you go back to look at what happened 25 years ago when Heaven Hill had that big fire and all the other distilleries gathered around them and said, Hey, we're going to keep you in business. I thought, you know, to me, that's unheard of in business, but. That's typical of the bourbon industry. It is, it is, because it's not just about the spirit. It's about the people who are producing that spirit. You know, and it goes much deeper than that. You don't want to see anybody. Uh, at such a loss like they did. So you want to help them get back on their feet as soon as you can. Sure. Yeah. You know, in the, in the days of competition, you'd think, Oh, great. But no, I love that attitude about the industry. It's, it's absolutely phenomenal. Yeah. Um, what are you most proud of that you've done? Wow. Um, you know, honestly, the position that I'm in, I mean, it's to me it to, Be asked by people who have been in the industry. Some of them have been in their industry their whole life, uh, or they've been some way, shape or form in, in the spirit world. That sounds weird, but it's spirit world. Yeah. To be asked to do that, uh, to me, that's a great honor because it's like, I am, I am a little person in this big world of, of whiskey. And so, um, I think having that and, and being, um, being. requested. That's, that's really cool. Uh, you know, because it's like, really you want me, you know, you could have all these other people, but, you know, so I think that's a, that's a huge honor for me. Yeah. Yeah. So we mentioned, uh, bourbonwomen. org, the organization. I love that organization. I've get the newsletters and I follow that, you know, uh, routine. Who are some of the influences and the people, the women that you look up to in the bourbon industry? Yeah. Great question. Um, well, I'd have to say that, uh, There's four that come to mind right off the bat. Andrea Wilson, I love talking with her. Jane Bowie, Lisa Wicker, and Alex Castle. You know, Alex and I run into each other quite a bit at different, in different places, different festivals and whatnot. And I, anytime I'm with any of them, I try to Just listen and absorb and, um, and that's, to me, that's important. Um, I, I remember there was an instance that, uh, I was speaking to a group in Louisville, and, um, it was a big group. big group of 120 people. And the day before I was to speak, uh, I got a phone call and said, Oh, by the way, we forgot to tell you it's, it's women's history month. And so we're doing a panel and we want you to be on that panel. And I'm like, okay. And I, and they, I said, who's on the panel? Oh, Andrea Wilson, Jane Boy, Lisa. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. You want me to be on a panel with these ladies? You know, it's like, I, I was scared stiff. Excited and nervous all at the same time, because it's like to, to be in the presence of that, those minds is something else. Yeah. Yeah. Um, though those are some great names, uh, I had, uh, Andrew Wilson has been on my podcast and she was more than gracious and also Peggy, no Stevens, which I know, you know, uh, but they were, they were very, uh, gracious to allow me to do what we're doing today. So, and again, thanks to you. So, these women give you inspiration, but what inspires you, what motivates you when you get up in the morning to do what you do? Oh, man. Um, you know, meeting people. I love meeting people and I love, um, I love to see people's light go on, like they've learned something. Um, you know, my background was teaching and so, uh, that I think has always been a part of me my entire life is to watch people. Get excited or to see them when you can explain something differently so that they get it. And you see the excitement in their face. That's, that's what I live for. Oh, yeah. Is to, being able to talk to people, whether it's one person, a group of 50, a group of 100, doesn't matter, but to see them get excited and then come back and want to learn more. That, that's what I do. That makes my day. That's what I look, you know, live for. Right. So that, that's great motivation because you know, this industry really is about, as we said earlier, it is about people. It is. And it's about making that connection. That's one thing that I really love about this is meeting people for the first time and then sitting and talking about bourbon. Yeah. And uh, just having that, that heart to heart conversation and you build that bond that way. And, you know, I've always tell people when I do my tasting, cause I said, you know, uh, bourbon has, Supportive families for generations. It's the way we celebrate our wins in life. It's the way we honor those who have gone before and it's the way we meet, we welcome new friends. And so I totally believe that. So I, that sounds exactly what you're saying in different words. Yeah, yeah it is, it is. It's just, it's just the excitement of it. So if you had, if you came across a young lady, or not young, but just a lady in general that says I want to do what Karen's doing, what would you tell them to do? Oh, get your foot in the door. Get your foot in the door. And, and, um, I think for me, one of the easiest parts about my job is coming from a tour guide position. You know, you, you learn so much more about the distillery when you're having to talk about it all the time and you get bombarded with questions. You know, and you know, you get, you, you know, when the chemical engineers come in, the type of questions that they're asking versus just the, the, you know, mom and pops that are, you know, just want to learn. And so having all of that background, having being asked all of those questions along the way really makes it easy to, to transition into, you know, into groups. Are there any resources that you would suggest that they check out? You know, I went through, uh, did my bourbon steward testing through, you know, Stave and Thief Society and Moonshine University. Uh, what other kind of resources would you suggest that they take a look at? You know, Reed, Just read anything. Yeah, just read books and don't, don't, don't use one book as your sole source of knowledge, you know, because it's a, it's always nice to be able to say, well, when I read this, it said this, but then I read that and it said something else. So you can take from it however you want. I think the more knowledge you have, um, the. And the more forthcoming you are, the easier it is for people to understand what you're saying, and then to want to learn on their own, to grow more. Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. Um, now, we discussed this already, but I first heard you, Um, on one of my favorite podcast, uh, distilled the bourbon podcast, the four guys out of Henderson, Kentucky, which I just think they're so knowledgeable and they're just great guys and I love their pockets. So I encourage everybody to follow them and listen to them because you know, I pick up as much from them as I do my other sources of information with that. Um, so I'm going to borrow something that they do and I'm going to, I give them full credit for it cause I think it's the greatest thing. So what was your first? First bourbon or whiskey that you had? Ooh, first bourbon or whiskey, how far back am I going? Pre teens? No, not pre teens, no. Um, that's not, that's not true. I disregard that. Um, so I guess my first bourbon that I would really sit down and enjoy was Basil Hayden. Right. Yeah, Basil Hayden. And you know, I remember, um, I remember drinking it and thinking, Wow, I'm drinking bourbon. I have made it. I am a Kentucky person through and through now. And a fun, fun story about that is, um, with my aunt, there's a group of us, there's four of us that get together and we, we do blinds and we bring in our favorite bourbons and stuff. And, um, I remember we were doing a night where you brought your favorite bourbon and then we did a blind so you, you know, hoping to pick it out again. And I, and, uh, yeah, I was surprised that my palate had grown so much, but, uh, Basil Hayden is what I started on. So, um, you know, I've grown, uh, you know, it's a, it's a great bourbon to start with. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So, so what is the best bourbon you've ever had, you think? Wow. Besides Green River? Sure, yeah. We'll say besides Green River because you know, I love, I love everything you all make so. Oh man, um, well, you know, that's a hard one because it all depends for me. It depends on the mood that I'm in. Exactly. And it depends on the time of the year. You know, I will gravitate towards the rise more in the wintertime as it gets colder. Uh, and I tend to go for the sweet You know, it's funny that you say that because I just realized this past year that's exactly what my palate changed to yeah sweet summer Spicy winter. Yeah, and I was like, I was like, okay. I'm glad to see somebody else. Yeah. Yeah, it does it changes You know from time to time in it and it also changes, you know with my moods You know what? I what I want if I want a comfort bourbon, you know, and I'm not drinking Green River I Um, there's a lot of'em out there that are good. I like Elijah Craig. Small batch. I like mixers. Mm-Hmm. I mean, I, I like, uh, knob Creek 12 Mm-Hmm. I mean, there's just a wide variety out there, so I don't think there's any bad bourbon. I just think there's, uh, bourbons that fit your palate. You know, that's another thing that I say. I said, there's no such thing as a bad bourbon. It's only a bad bourbon for your palate. Yeah. For your palate. And, and, you know, and I always remind people when, when I'm doing tastings and just talking to'em, you know. What you've eaten that day. you know, if you take medications Oh yes. That'll screw up your pal brushing your teeth. Yeah, yeah. That will do it too. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So no, I get that. So, so what is your favorite Green River? Oh, man. Um, you know, uh, when I think about our products, you know, the first thing that we launched was our high rye bourbon, and that was 90 proof. It's 70 corn, 21 rye, nine malt, 90 proof, and that is just a really good daily drinker. Um, I like them all. Uh, in June we came out with our Full Proof. That has to be right now my go to all the time. Uh, and it's just, uh, got such a rich flavor to it. And very sweet on the front. Nice little light spice from my palate on the back. And, um, yeah, I, uh, I'll drink any of them, but Full Proof right now would probably be mine. My go-to or a good single barrel And uh, so it is funny you said because that, that your very first Green River that you brought up, I had stopped at the distillery to come in to check, to check out the gift shop. Yeah. You were closed because you were doing, uh, a radio remote here to launch. And so this was on a Thursday, and so on Friday, I went back to Louisville, and I went to my, one of my liquor stores, and I said, Hey, do you have it? And the guy says, Oh, I hate so and so, because every time he says this, people rush in to buy the bourbon. I said, No, I was at the distillery yesterday, and he told me about this. He said, Hold on. He put, he looked in his thing. He says, Well, it's not here yet. He goes, What? Wait a minute. So he runs to the back. His truck had just got there and he dug into the boxes so I could buy the, I think I bought the first bottle in Louisville. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. But I've loved your product ever since then because that, that just settled my palate. I mean, I love the bottle. I love the, I love your grain, your, your mash bill. Yeah. It's really, really good for me. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's, uh, It just kind of checks all the boxes. It does. It really does. So tell me what's in your, what is, so is, so you said the full proof is probably what's in your glass. When I go home tonight? Yes. That's what, that's what will be in my glass. So we started talking about this earlier before the podcast and I'm really interested in the 1885. Yeah. I have a bottle of that and I think it's quite interesting. Great. Yeah, it's really so, so, so kind of give the, the, the thought behind that and the philosophy and what, what your goals are with that from the, from a distiller's standpoint, because I think it's phenomenal. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. So, you know, when you're looking at the market and you, you see what's out there, uh, we felt that there was a need to have something out there for the wells and, you know, with the shape of our bottle, our bottle isn't necessarily a conducive. To being in a well, you know, it's a little awkward for that. So we really took a look at it and we said, what, what can we do? So we lowered the proof a little bit. We dropped it down to 85 and we took the bottle and made it more, uh, you know, your standard typical, uh, spirits bottle and made it into a one liter so that it would be, it would fit in the well and it would go. Really well as a mixer or you know as a neat pour if you want we aim to do it for on premise So that means for our bars and restaurants. We wanted to help them Help them help us basically, you know to to get it out there and put it in the well as a reasonable pour That mixes well, or you just drink it neat Either way. So I think we did. I think we've done a fantastic job right now. It's in nine test markets, so we're just testing it out to see how it's going. I think it's going over extremely well right now. We've I've not heard any any Negative feedback on anything. So I'm excited for it because it's it really does drink. It's good. I Will tell you that it for me. It makes a really really good, Manhattan Oh, yeah, it's it's like the flavors are so balanced with with the bitters and with the vermouth and it's like oh, yeah No, it really does. It's um, it is It just sits well on the palate and you can have fun with it, whether it isn't a Manhattan or an old fashioned, or you can throw it into a fruitier drink and it's still going to hold its own. Uh, 85 proof is great. It's that nice mid range point. It's not. You know, you're not at 90. 90 is great. I love our, I love our core products, but when you're trying to mix, you want to, you want to bring that cost down a little bit and help the bartenders out and help the restaurants out. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's genius that you guys are going after that. And then you can just walk up and say, make mine an 85. And you're doing 1885 and 85 proof There you go. Make mine in 85. So now I get where the, where the day comes from. Yeah. So, so we, you, you have actually, you, you have a pour in a glass here. So I do share with the listeners what we, what we have, um, what I poured for you today, uh, when we were talking before Mm-Hmm. is what hadn't you tried of ours or hadn't tried in a, in a while. And so this is our rye whiskey. So this is our 95 5 rye. So 95 percent rye 5 percent malted barley and this one we proofed at 95 proof So, um, it is, uh, I call it the Bourbon Lover's Rye. That's how I explain it to everybody. It's the Bourbon Lover's Rye. Typically when we nose a 95. 5 rye, uh, it will, it tends to burn our senses a little bit. You know, you know, oh, this is, this is a rye, uh, and it's, it's going to be higher proof, but you'll notice that if you do that with ours, it's very sweet. It is. That's what caught me off guard. Yeah. It is. If I don't tell you that it's a rye whiskey, right up front, you would not pick it out. I would not have picked that out. You will say that it's different, but you, you would not peg it at a 95. 5 rye. And she and I wouldn't have thought that rye's being a sweet, being sweet like that. Yeah. So the unique thing that we did was we used the same yeast strain across the board. So that's going to pull in some of those underlying flavors that you, that you get in the bourbons. You're going to pull that out in that rye. So It sits different on your palate, you're getting more of the baking spices, you're getting the, you're getting the, um, the fruitiness up front. I like to say it's like a, a graham cracker, honey graham cracker, and a little bit of that, um, I like to say like an orange citrus on it is, is what I pull out of it when I'm drinking it, but it's just a, it's just, it's a sipping rye. It really is, but it mixes great too. If you're, if you're trying to like rye whiskey, I always encourage people, grab a bottle of Green River Rye, because this is going to be the rye whiskey that's going to get you into understanding that. A transitional. Yeah. A transitional rye. You know, no, that, that is really good. I have a tendency to put, to use ryes in my Manhattans. Oh yeah. And that, which is going to hold up just like the rest of the process. Oh, it does. It does that um, you know, we with with this being the 95. Five right, you. You want it. I think people, I always tell people, get your mind right when you're getting ready to taste this because it's not going to be the pepper that you're anticipating. It's going to be the baking spices. You know, it's going to be, it's going to have that earthy undertone because of the rye, but it's not in your face. Yeah. Cause I didn't get any of the, just a hair of spice and everything else was like full, full on. It's like, wow. And it's not as drying to the palate. That is what you would expect to rise tend to dry the palette a little bit more I don't I don't get that on this one Um, I think it hits a little bit more in the front as being dry, but it finishes much more. Oh, yeah Yeah, it finishes. Yeah much more full body and Not like saying not dry Yeah, it's um. Mm hmm This is one I could sit and just nose all night. Yeah, cuz it's there's every time you go back for a different It's something different. It keeps opening up. And that's the thing, you know, a lot of people, and I got this from Peggy Noe Stevens. I remember we were at a symposium, this was a couple years ago, and somebody came up to her and said, Oh, Peggy, I brought you this poor that we were talking about. Whatever they go here, you want to try it? She goes, Oh, just pour it and I'll be back in about 10 minutes. And that's the truth. You know, it's like so many people will judge a bourbon or rye whiskey on that. They pour it and they take a sip. It's like, no, let it breathe. Absolutely. Let it breathe a little bit. Five, ten minutes, you know. And that's what I try to, every time I go to bourbon dinners and we have a master distiller, we have a brand ambassador or a master taster there, that's, everybody says that, and it's like, well, it's already poured on the table by the time you get there, so you've got a time to really air out, and there's bourbons, like you say, that I've tried that I absolutely did not like. Yeah. Let them sit. I just pour them in a glass forget about it. Oh, yeah, there's I forgot I got a pour of it and then it's much much better Yeah, and it's the same thing even when you get a bourbon that maybe it's one that you haven't tried somebody gifted you a bottle Whatever and you try a pour of it and you're like, oh, oh, I don't like that Okay. Wait a month, wait, wait two weeks and go back and try it again. Because again, depending on what, what you've eaten, depending on the temperature, there's so many variables that don't just give it one shot, give it a couple of shots and then. Then make your decision whether it's something that you want to enjoy or not. Absolutely. No, this is, this is, this is beyond my shelf. Yeah, yeah. And for, you know, the other thing that we did, you know, typically rye whiskies are going to cost the consumer more because the grain costs us more, and it's a more difficult grain to work with. Is it? Yeah, definitely more difficult. Um, when we're, uh, just as an example, if we're making running bourbon on our still, we'll clean our still about every two weeks. Uh, if we're making rye whiskey, we would clean it every five days. That's the difference. So you can see the cost effectiveness of it is going to be greater for us. So that's typically why a consumer will see a rye whiskey costing more. Uh, we took our core, our three core products and they're lined priced. They, they are the exact same price to the consumer. You know, um, we, our suggested retail on it is 34. 99 for whether it's our weeded bourbon or high rye bourbon or our rye whiskey. And that's unheard of. Yeah, that is, you're right, exactly right. Yeah, so we want people to drink it. Absolutely. Well, cool. All right. Well, folks, that's going to wrap things up, uh, for us today. And Karen, thanks so much for being on, on, uh, the Bells of Bourbon, the podcast. Uh, and it's been a joy and a pleasure learning from you today. Thank you. I'd like to invite everyone to follow me on Facebook at the bluegrass bourbon guy and in my website, the bluegrass bourbon guy. com. Thanks for joining us here in the living room. And until next time, please sip sensibly and drink responsibly. Have a great day.